Tag Archives: wine podcast

Geek Notes — Grape Radio Episode 391 Interview with Hubert de Boüard of Ch. Angélus

Published on October 10, 2018

I’m getting ready to teach a class on Bordeaux so I’ve been getting my geek on with Bordeaux-themed podcasts. I found lots of great material from this 2015 episode of Grape Radio (44:43) featuring interviews with Hubert de Boüard of Château Angélus in Saint-Emilion and Angus Smith, Grand Maitre of the US chapter of the Commanderie de Bordeaux.

I don’t know when I’ll get a chance to do Geek Notes write up on them but Levi Dalton’s I’ll Drink To That! had two more great Bordeaux episodes that I really enjoyed. Check them out!

Episode 388 with Decanter’s Jane Anson. REALLY good stuff that’s worth listening to two or three times because of all the great info. Anson is one of my favorite wine writers and her writings are worth the subscription to Decanter’s premium content alone.

Episode 350 with Alexandre Thienpont of Vieux Château Certan and François Thienpont of Le Pin in Pomerol. The difference in their approach is fascinating. Also Erin Scala gives a great overview of the lasting impact of the 1956 frost in St. Emilion.

Some Background

Angélus is my absolute favorite Bordeaux estate. While I obviously can’t afford to drink it everyday, I do make sure that I nab at least one bottle as a future each year to enjoy at a special dinner down the road. Even though vintages average around $300-400, I actually think Angélus is relatively undervalued compared to other top growths in Bordeaux like the First Growths of the Medoc, Cheval Blanc and Petrus.

While I enjoyed my evening with Petrus, I would take 6 to 7 bottles of Angélus over a second bottle in a heart beat.

I haven’t done a full geek-out post on Angélus yet (oh but its coming) so I will direct folks to Jeff Leve’s awesome write up of the property on his The Wine Cellar Insider site as well as this geeky little blurb from the Grape Radio episode page:

The estate has been owned by the Boüard de Laforest family since the Domaine de Mazaret was bequeathed to Comte Maurice de Boüard de Laforest in 1909, and expanded by the acquisition of Clos de L’Angélus in 1926 and a plot from Château Beau-Séjour Bécot in 1969. The name refers to the three Angelus bells audible from the vineyards. — Grape Radio, June 9th 2015

While the terroir is top notch, I do think a lot of Angélus success is because of Hubert de Boüard’s viticulture and winemaking style. Which means if you are looking for better price points, some of his other properties like Château La Fleur de Boüard in Lalande de Pomerol (Ave $35), Chateau Bellevue in Saint Emilion (Ave $56), Chateau de Francs in Cotes de Bordeaux (Ave $14) and consulting clients are good places to look.

Among his consulting clients, a few of my favorites are:

I would put the quality of Ch. Lanessan on par with many 4th and 5th growths.

Ch. Grand Corbin in St. Emilion (Ave $33)
Ch. de Ferrand in St. Emilion (Ave $45)
Ch. Vieux Château Palon in Montagne-Saint-Emilion (Ave $30)
Ch. La Pointe in Pomerol (Ave $47)
Ch. de Chantegrive in Graves (Ave $28)
Ch. Fieuzal in Pessac-Léognan (Ave $48)
Ch. Grand Puy Ducasse in Pauillac (Ave $51)
Ch. Lanessan in Haut-Medoc (Ave $24)

The 2015 vintages for several of these (the Vieux Château Palon, Chategrive and Lanessan in particular) are exceptional values for the money and well worth stocking up on.

There is also a second and third wine for Angélus, Le Carillon de l’Angelus (Ave $103) and Number 3 d’Angelus (Ave $52), but I haven’t had an opportunity to try either.

Some Fun Things I Learned From This Podcast

(2:11) Hubert de Boüard talks the signature role that Cabernet Franc plays in the wines of Angélus. While the estate has less Cab Franc than Cheval Blanc, it still accounts for 47% of plantings. In most years the grape makes up around 40-50% of the blend. Side note: Really interesting to compare de Boüard’s view of Cab Franc to the Thienponts who don’t seem as enthralled with the variety.

(2:55) He goes further into how this high proportion of Cab Franc differentiates Angélus from other Merlot-dominant St. Emilion wines. While it also plays a prominent role in Cheval Blanc, the sandy gravel soils of that property give it a different personality than the clay-limestone soils of Angélus.

(6:00) The second wine, Le Carillon, is made from both dedicated blocks and declassified Angélus fruit.

(7:26) Brian Clark asks how the style of Angélus has evolved over the years. Hubert de Boüard talks about the influence of his university studies and Émile Peynaud on adding a more scientific approach to winemaking.

It often seems like Cabernet Franc is the forgotten “third wheel” of the Bordeaux blend behind Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot. Even Petit Verdot is starting to get more attention.

(9:20) Jay Selman brings the topic back to Cabernet Franc and notes how some people love the variety and some hate it. (Put me on the love side) Hubert de Boüard highlights the importance of ripeness and good soil which allows the grape to show its spicy and velvet side.

(10:27) Cab Franc is not favored on the Left Bank because it tends to be more green when grown in their gravelly soils. It often ends up in the second labels of Medoc and Grave producers.

(10:54) Really fascinating description of the “crescent” (or croissant?) of ideal soils for Cabernet Franc that begin with Ch. Lafleur next to Petrus in Pomerol then Certan (Vieux Château Certan? Certan de May? Certan Giraud?) into St. Emilion with Cheval Blanc, Angélus and Ausone. The key is clay but too much is too much because the soils will be too cold. The clay needs to be balanced with a warmer top soil of limestone, gravel or sand. To de Boüard, Cabernet Franc is very Pinot noir-like in needing the right balance of conditions to shine.

(12:18) Cab Franc vines need at least 20 years of age and low crop yield to perform best.

(13:20) At Angélus around 17% of the Cabernet Franc vines are at least 70 years of age.

(14:30) Hubert de Boüard talks about the classification of St. Emilion which is VERY interesting to listen to in light of recent news. One interesting note he does make is the importance of evaluating the land in St. Emilion’s classification versus just the winery’s brand with the 1855 classification.

(18:50) Eric Anderson asks about what would happen if a winery gets demoted in the St. Emilion classification. Surprisingly, instead of answering “hire lawyers” de Boüard gives the example of Beau Séjour Bécot and how the Becot family responded to their 1986 demotion.

I know de Boüard thinks the 2001 is better but man was this 2000 Angélus a sexy, sexy wine.

(19:50) Brian Clark asks about top vintages in Bordeaux. I got a chuckle out of Hubert de Boüard’s response “The best one is the one we didn’t sell.” Wondering if he’s thinking about the Woeful ‘7s’? More seriously, de Boüard notes how the reputation of a vintage on the Left Bank sometimes overshadows how the year was on the Right Bank. He gives the example of the 2000 vintage which was great on the Left Bank but overshadows the more superior Right Bank vintage of 2001.

(21:30) It’s unfortunate that consumers get obsessed with the “expensive vintages” de Boüard says. He highlights years like 2001 and 2006 as years that consumers can get great value. With this interview taking place in mid-2015, I wonder if de Boüard would include years like 2012 & 2014 in those “great buy” vintages once they reach the age of 2001/2006.

Interview with Angus Smith of Commanderie de Bordeaux

(27:29) Here the interview switches to a description of the dinners of the Commanderie de Bordeaux and details about the organization. Essentially this is a not-so-secret society of wine lovers dedicated to advocating Bordeaux wines across the globe.

Historically, the Commanderie had been open to just men and their spouses. Thankfully, that looks to be changing with some chapters, like the Chicago chapter, opening up their membership to women. The DC chapter even had a women hold the title of chapter head, or Madame Le Maitre, with Bette A. Alberts.

When this episode first aired in 2015, I emailed the head of the Seattle chapter and got no response. So I don’t know if women are allowed in this chapter. Frankly, I think it is ridiculous to even let this be a chapter by chapter decision. I understand the nature of private clubs and the privilege they have in deciding their membership. But its 2018 and having gender-based restrictions on wine clubs is beyond silly.

(36:56) Jay Selman asks about decanting with a good discussion that follows. Smith and de Boüard seem to be fans of a few hours and double decanting. At Brian Clark’s chapter of the Commanderie they tend to do a blanket 3 hour decant on all wines–outside of very old vintages.

(39:43) Smith and de Boüard argue against putting the cork back into the bottle after double decanting. With this the cork is often put in upside down with the wine stained side facing out. This means that the side that was exposed to dirt and dust is now inside the bottle and potentially contaminating the wine. But beyond that, de Boüard sees little need to recork the wine at all after decanting.

(40:31) A shout-out to decanting white wines. This is something that I don’t do myself but I can see the benefit–especially with whites seals with screw-caps which can be very reductive on opening.

(40:56) A discussion about what is it about older wines that are appealing to wine drinkers. One good point I like from this discussion is how people’s definition of “older wines” varies from person to person.

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Geek Notes — Wine For Normal People Episode 84 Featuring Tuscan Wine Regions

Amber LeBeau in Geek Notes, Wine Knowledge, Wine regions

Published on September 16, 2018

Screenshot from the Wine For Normal People podcast

Outside of blog land, I frequently teach wine classes. As part of my usual prep routine whenever I have a class to write, I’ll fill my Overcast queue with wine podcasts relating to the class. I find that listening to podcasts while cleaning the house, working out at the gym and driving helps submerse me into the topic and compliments my book studies really well.

My usual sources for hardcore geekdom are Levi Dalton’s I’ll Drink To That! (whose episode with Gramercy owner and Master Sommmelier Greg Harrington I featured in a previous Geek Notes) and the GuildSomm podcast hosted by Master Sommelier Geoff Kruth.

However, I’ll also frequently listen to Chris Scott’s The UK Wine Show, Heritage Radio Network’s In the Drink, Jim Duane’s podcast Inside Winemaking and the very first wine podcast that I started with–Grape Radio.

Two newly launched podcasts that are also in my rotation are Wine Enthusiast’s What We’re Tasting and James Halliday’s Wine Companion podcast.

But I’m always on the lookout for more options so if you know of any other great wine podcasts worth checking out, post them in the comments below!

It was while working on an upcoming Italian wine class that I stumbled upon what is definitely going to be a new go-to resource for me–Elizabeth Schneider’s Wine for Normal People podcast.

A Little Background and Why You Should Listen Too

Anyone who shares a disheartening sigh while looking at wine displays virtually dominated by the same 3 big mega-corps is fighting the good fight in my book.

Elizabeth Schneider is a Certified Specialist of Wine and Certified Sommelier who hosts the podcasts with her husband, M.C. Ice. I’m sure there is a story behind the hubby’s stage name but I haven’t came across it yet while listening.

Outside of the podcast, she does speaking engagements, online classes and has an upcoming book Wine for Normal People: A Guide for Real People Who Like Wine, but Not the Snobbery That Goes with It slated for release in early 2019.

Her website also has a super user-friendly list of brands owned by big mega-corps that is worth book marking. As I found in compiling my own list of supermarket wines, this is no easy task to stay on top of so I wholeheartedly support Schneider’s efforts in promoting more knowledge and transparency in this area.

I must confess that when I first read the description of the Wine For Normal People podcast, I thought this would be a bit too beginner for me. It could still be a great podcast that benefits a lot of people who want to dip their toes into the world of wine but I was expecting it to be something more like an updated version of William Wilson’s Wine for Newbies podcast.

But what I quickly found after listening through a few episodes is that Schneider has a fantastic teaching style and approach to wine that serves up ample geeky goodness but balances it by presenting the topic in a digestible manner.

Even for folks like me who have fell down the rabbit hole of wine geekiness, listening to the podcast and paying attention to how she presents her topics is of huge benefit. When we live in a world with a billion+ wine drinkers, one thing that us hardcore wine geeks have to realize is that we really are the minority here. Not every wine drinker aspires to be a Master of Wine or Master Sommelier or even a wine geek. The passion and enthusiasm that drives us to learn more–and to share what we’ve learned–can often be a bit much for many wine drinkers and ends up driving them away back to the comforts of the same ole, same ole.

In the end it is all about balance which, like a good wine, I find well exhibited in the Wine For Normal People podcast.

Plus, there is still plenty of geeky nuggets in each episode like these things I noted in Episode 084 on Tuscan Wine Regions (35 minutes).

Vineyards in Montalcino

Some Fun Things I Learned/Enjoyed From This Podcast

(3:36) I really liked Schneider’s answer to the question of if the French should feel threatened at all by the rise of Super Tuscans using Bordeaux varieties. She talks about the difference in French culture of “closing ranks” versus the in-fighting that you often see among Italian winemakers.

(7:06) Brunello is a relatively recent wine on the Italian wine scene with the particular Sangiovese Grosso clone isolated only in 1888. However, Schneider notes that winemakers as early as the 14th century were aware of the superior quality of wines in the Montalcino region.

The estate of Biondi-Santi pioneered the modern concept of Brunello di Montalcino.

(8:44) Very surprised to hear that only 4 vintages of Brunello were declared during the first 57 years of production after 1888. I definitely want to read more about this and why.

(11:55) This starts a really great discussion on the two zones of the Montalcino region–the northern and southern–with some very useful insights on the different wines produced in the different soil types. Nice tidbit on the winemaking approach of Silvio Nardi who own vineyards in both zones.

(15:24) The uniqueness of the Sangiovese based wines of Carmignano compared to Chianti. Often called “The Original Super Tuscan” due to its historical tradition of using Cabernet Sauvignon but Schneider also notes that Carmignano is distinct for growing Sangiovese on flatter lands whereas the grape usually thrives on higher elevation hillsides. Also of interest is that some Carmignano estates, like in Bolgheri, have Cabernet Sauvignon vines that were grafted from cuttings taken from Chateau Lafite in Bordeaux.

(21:20) Going to have a slight disagreement with the podcast here. After talking about some of the reasons why Chianti has historically been “a hot mess” (quite true!), Schneider encourages people to not really bother taking a chance on Chianti and instead look for wines from the Chianti Classico zone. This isn’t bad advice per se, but it is one of the Magic Beans of Wine that I’ve never been a fan of promoting.

I won’t deny that Chianti’s bad rap is well earned but sometimes there is a needle of a gem within the haystack of fiascos. You have to trust that a good quality producer is not going to put their name on crap.

Yeah, there is lots of crappy Chianti out there. But there is also a lot of crappy Chianti Classico out there as well. Instead of focusing on the region (Chianti vs Chianti Classico), it really should be about the producer–which, to be fair, is a common theme that Schneider makes repeatedly in this podcast. Yet, for some reason, she seems to ignore that a good quality producer of Chianti Classico can also make a good quality Chianti. This Chianti may even be made from grapes grown in the Chianti Classico zone but declassified down to Chianti for various reasons–younger vines, less aging, wanting to have a more approachable and easy drinking bottle at a lower price point, etc.

Sure, the Chianti Classico from that same producer will be the superior bottle but that doesn’t discount the potential value in a bottle of well made Chianti from a reputable producer.

(22:59) Canaiolo nero use to be the main grape of Chianti until the 1870s. Very interesting! I would love to try a varietal Canaiolo.

(24:22) Oooh I love Schneider’s use of different varieties of roses as a vehicle for explaining the differences in Sangiovese’s clones. It’s not easy to explain clones but this metaphor is a good start.

(24:55) This starts a very useful overview of the different sub-areas within the Chianti Classico zone.

Photo by Viking59. Uploaded to Wikimedia Commons under PD-self

While it’s not impossible to envision the Gamay of Beaujolais (pictured) growing in Tuscany, I would probably wager on this being a case of a weird Italian synonym for another variety,

(29:02) Very interesting to hear that some producers of Vino Nobile di Montepulciano have been grafting over to the Chianti Classico clone of Sangiovese–though Prugnolo Gentile still dominates. Also apparently Gamay can be blended in (29:23)!?! I wasn’t aware of Tuscan Gamay so I’m wondering if this is a synonym for another grape like Alicante? Will need to do some more research here.

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Geek Notes — I’ll Drink To That! Episode 331 Featuring Greg Harrington

Amber LeBeau in Geek Notes, Washington wine, Wine Knowledge

Published on August 23, 2018

Screenshot from I’ll Drink To That! channel on SoundCloud.

As part of our celebration of Washington Wine Month in August, I’m reviewing some of the resources that folks can use to learn more about Washington State wine.

For this edition of Geek Notes, I’m encouraging readers to check out Levi Dalton’s I’ll Drink To That! podcast episode 331 featuring Washington winemaker and Master Sommelier Greg Harrington of Gramercy Cellars in Walla Walla. To listen to the full podcast on Sound Cloud click here.

The first half of the 2 hour podcast covers Harrington’s pre-Washington story including his path to Master Sommelier and his experience working with Wolfgang Puck, Emeril Lagasse, Joyce Goldstein and Stephen Hanson as well as the Vegas wine scene during his time developing the wine program at the Bellagio. That later segment in particular includes several intriguing anecdotes about opening up the Bellagio with 150 cases of 1982 Petrus (Wine Searcher Average $5,835 a bottle now) that was completely sold out within 6 months (43:27 mark) as well as how wine comps are handled for high rollers. (Yeah, I think I’ll just be content playing my Somm Game in Vegas)

Harrington also makes some great points about how his experience working in restaurants taught him how to run a business (a “MBA in a box”) (1:48:32 mark) with skills that he still uses in his winery today.

The whole episode is well worth a listen but at around the 1:10:00 mark, Dalton and Harrington turn their attention to the Washington side of his story.

Some Washington-related items I learned from this podcast.

(1:16:40) While Harrington bought at a really good time in the mid 2000s, he still thinks there is about 10 years (from 2017) left where buying vineyards in Walla Walla is still a good financial decision.

While Grenache has huge potential and promise in Washington State, we still have a long way to go before we can reap the benefit of old vine plantings like this Grenache vineyard at Charles Melton Winery in South Australia.

(1:19:42) Harrington thinks Grenache offers a lot of potential but the freeze of 1984 killed nearly all of the Grenache that was previously planted in the state so the grape is being rethought now with new plantings in new locations.

(1:20:25) Whites in Washington don’t seem to excite Harrington as much as the reds though he is intrigued at the potential of the Columbia Gorge for white wines like Sauvignon blanc and even unique varieties like Trousseau gris and Fiano. Very interesting commentary especially considering how delicious Gramercy Picpoul is.

(1:22:43) The “blessing and curse” of Washington is its long growing season with Harrington noting that Syrah could be harvested in some vintages anywhere from September 1st to November 1st, producing a wide variance of style in the same year. Harrington notes that Gramercy is usually among the first in all their contract vineyards to pick Syrah.

Located on the eastern edges of the Walla Walla Valley, the Forgotten Hills Vineyard is very cool climate site that is usually harvested later in the season.

(1:23:50) A really great explanation of the frost issues that can impact Walla Walla as well as what actually happens to the vine when it is damaged by frost. Super geeky and one of my favorites tidbits from the podcast.

(1:25:30) “Syrah likes a view” with Harrington preferring higher altitude vineyards above 1300 feet including the Les Collines Vineyard.

(1:26:17) Harrington talks about both the positives (the aromatics) and negatives (too high pH) of fruit from the Rocks District. He prefers to use Syrah from here as “salt & pepper” seasoning for blends.

(1:27:03) He is also a big fan of Red Willow Syrah and considers that vineyard to be one of the premiere areas in the state for the grape.

(1:28:19) The benefit of fermenting with the stems with Syrah and answering the myth about using “green stems”. Really informative section! From here the podcast gets into a lot of geeky winemaking stuff about dealing with reduction, volatile acidity and native fermentation that isn’t necessarily Washington-centric but definitely worth listening to.

(1:34:33) Dalton asks Harrington if Syrah from Washington is less reductive than Syrah grown elsewhere. Harrington gives a very interesting answer and notes that perhaps the fact that Washington vineyards and wineries here tend to use less sulfur treatments on the grapes and in winemaking could play a role. He also notes that all of Gramercy’s estate vineyards are organic.

(1:38:40) Harrington thinks the drinking curve for Washington Syrahs starts at around 5 years from vintage date while Cabernet Sauvignon tends to be more approachable younger after around 2 years in the bottle. He also feels that Washington Cabernet Sauvignon tends to be soft and needing tannin.

The warm climate, steep aspect and poor sandy soil of the Alder Ridge Vineyard in the Horse Heaven Hills seems to be particularly well suited for Mourvedre.

(1:42:01) Among Washington vintages, Harrington is very high on the 2007 and 2010 vintage as among the best in Washington. Both 2010 and 2011 were very Old World-style vintages. 2012 was a great Cabernet Sauvignon vintage but not as much for Syrah.

(1:43:26) Harrington is high on Mourvedre in Washington but it needs to be planted in spots warmer than areas like the Rocks District in Oregon. He cites Olsen Vineyards in the Yakima Valley and Alder Ridge as promising vineyards for the grape.

(1:45:50) Dalton asks how often Washington winemakers look to the Old World for inspiration with Harrington encouraging more winemakers to explore the classic wines of the Old World.